Photo: Natania
Read our riveting conversation with Natania Lalwani. The Mumbai-based singer and songwriter, who has written tracks for giants including the “Prince of Reggaeton” J Balvin, Indian rap superstar King, Armaan Malik, Bella Poarch and more, has now partnered with Desi Trill for one of the most rewarding journeys in her career yet.
The breakout songwriter, who navigated the pandemic and wrote “Dolls” with Poarche amongst various top-tier tracks, is now at the forefront of Indian pop music and strives hard to pave the way for women artists & songwriters through various initiatives too.
Our far-fetched conversation traverses Lalwani’s extraordinary pursuits in the world of global pop music. From her partnership with Roc Nation Publishing to her hit singles “Nautanki”, “Gulzar” and “Mumbai Magic” with Desi Trill, the Los Angeles-bred singer is here to stay.
Hey Natania! How have you been?
I’ve been good. Yeah, I just got back to Mumbai. I was on a three-day trip to Jodhpur. It was amazing. We were recording folk musicians and it was so inspiring. Then, I visited a radio station in Delhi for promotions too.
So yeah, Life is great. Life has been… this year has just been full of music… which has been awesome. And it’s the first year where I kind of decided to put out music as an artist, rather than just a songwriter. It’s been a big shift… and with me trying to manage all the things has been so inspiring and it just feels like the shoe fit effortlessly, you know? And I don’t think that I’ve been this joyful about the music I’ve been making before and that brings my life so much joy. So yeah, it’s been great!
I’m so glad to know that, Natania. As you rightly said, you released a lot of tracks as an artist this year. However, you’ve been doing it for a minute now. Besides the music this year, your breakthrough chorus on “Crown” with King last year set everyone’s eyes on you. It was preceded by back-to-back tracks or independent projects since 2017. You released 12 singles in 2019 and followed it up with two EPs.
From releasing so many independent tracks to signing with Roc Nation Publishing and now Desi Trill, how has the transition been? We’re done scratching the surface now and it shows in your music!
Glad you asked me that. Yeah, I think all the stuff you’ve mentioned before… it was just me releasing stuff that I was making and not thinking about it as much as I do now. I mean at the time, I didn’t release or make music with the intent to be like, Hey, this is my artistry and this is what I wanna say, and this is the story I wanna tell. It was just kind of like…me working on a song for a movie, or a song for an ad, or a song for something, and I would just release it just so it was available if someone wanted to look it up but it wasn’t that personal to me. I mean, I still look at those songs and reminisce about how much fun I had while making them. So yeah, I’m so proud of everything I’ve put out, but this stuff that I’m releasing now is so personal and makes me feel like nothing in my life is off-limits with this music.
I just wanna wear my heart on my sleeve. I wanna be vulnerable. This is me a hundred per cent as an artist. And me just intentionally putting stuff out with the conviction that this is the story I wanna tell. This is what I want my music to sound like. It’s a very different phase. So yeah, you’re right in the way of like, me scratching the surface ’cause now that I look back, that wasn’t even the surface but now, I’m a hundred per cent exposed and it’s awesome. So, it’s a huge difference. But you know, every song is part of my journey, and I think it took me a while to get here and be like, okay, I really wanna put music out as an artist because, for the last three, four years, I was honestly so happy just writing music for other artists. I never felt like something was missing.
Because it’s like… when you’re writing for another artist, you’re kind of in therapy, you know? Like, in the two minutes you meet the artist, you’re like, okay, we need to become best friends so that you feel comfortable enough to expose yourself to me… and that’s such a rewarding part of this as well. So until, I actually signed with Roc Nation, the founder of Roc Nation (Ty Ty Smith) was starting Desi Trill and he mentioned me, and he was like, Hey, I’m doing this South Asian label. Do you wanna be an artist? And I actually said no (laughs).
Honestly, I was just so happy and I was thriving. I was in the midst of and in the mud of songwriting and I was just loving it. Yeah, and then he was like, okay, do you wanna still write demos for the label? And I was like, yeah, a hundred per cent. So, I started writing demos and then every time I’d send him a demo, he’d call me saying “Are you sure you don’t wanna sing this?” And then literally, on the day of my signing, Rolling Stone India magazine released a press release talking about the signing, and they’d asked me like, “Oh, when is your next EP coming out?”… and I was like, “Oh, probably in September.” I just literally made that up.
Like, I didn’t know that I had an EP coming out (laughs). And then, one of the founders called me up and he’s like, “You said you didn’t wanna be an artist. What is this EP that’s coming out?” It was hilarious and then, we just had one of the most inspiring conversations of my life. He was just like, “I wanna talk to you about being an artist. We’re trying to create this footprint of a new wave of music with your culture and with your sound, and you’re already writing it, why not be the face of it?”… and it was just so inspiring that I was like, “you know what? Let’s do it.” It was hands down, the best decision I’ve made. The shoe fit. Now that I think about it, I’m like, “Oh, why didn’t I start earlier?” But you know, everything aligns and everything has its timeline. So now, I’m just trying to do both things, which is awesome. It’s been amazing to just be able to tell my story.
It certainly was a huge shift. For you to get yourself out there as an artist full-time while being an exceptional songwriter, demands a lot of effort and pushes you out of your comfort zone as you said. Did you feel prepared at first? Or were you like, “You know what? I can never be really ready. So, let’s just do my best and see where it leads me towards.”
Yeah, of course! I mean, I don’t think you’re ready for anything in your life. Forget career, just anything in general. You just gotta do it and the moment you do it, you become ready or you learn along the way, you know, and that’s something I’ve always stood by.
I mean, even when I moved to LA to pursue music, I didn’t know I was ready or how to figure things out for me. Like, I look back at my 15-year-old self and think about how I was so delusional in the best way just because I could play four chords on a guitar. I wrote like five songs. I didn’t know anything about music. I didn’t know anything about publishing. I didn’t know anything about business. But still, I was just like, “This is what I’m gonna do and I’m gonna do it.” I feel like if you plan things, when are you gonna be ready?
Even like, at the time of doing my first music video in Jaipur, I remember while I was on the way, I was stressed out ‘cause I hadn’t done a full-on production music video at scale. I was like, “Oh my God, am I gonna be okay? Am I gonna be nervous?” Like, I don’t know! And then, when I got there, it was just immediately great and I didn’t feel nervous at all and again, it just felt like everything aligned. So yeah, I think when you believe in yourself, you can kind of do anything you’re not ready for, or you’re ready for, you just gotta do it.
Like, if you have the confidence and you’re like, “This is what I’m gonna do, and even if I fail, it’s gonna be a learning lesson, and I’m gonna do it better the next time”. You just gotta do it and I feel like amazing things happen.
Having a strong sense of self-belief is crucial especially for an artist ‘cause you will never know which track will work or not.
A hundred per cent. I mean, you also have days where you are like, “Oh my God, I suck.” You also have days where you’re like, “Okay, I’m obsessed with what I’m doing.” So yeah, I think to be in this industry, perseverance and hard work count more than talent in a lot of ways because you can be the most talented person but if you don’t believe in yourself, you are not gonna push yourself to persevere… and our job is making an audience believe in us and it’s like, if you don’t believe in yourself, how are you gonna make someone else believe in you?
Rightly so. How do you get over the discomfort or self-doubts when you don’t feel like your best self as an artist or a songwriter?
Yeah, I think, like for me, I always give myself 24 hours. If I am feeling down or if I feel down because let’s say an opportunity doesn’t go through or something I was excited about doesn’t happen… that’s when I think I’m like, “Oh, like that sucks.” It’s during those uneasy times that I give myself 24 hours to actually feel it, and then I’m like, “Okay, you know what? We’re moving on to what’s next.” Yeah… and I think, like I always say, you need to learn how to be friends with the word no because in our line of work, out of like a hundred nos, you get one Yes. And that one yes is so worth it every time but you have to be okay with a hundred nos.
This is something I actually learned from Ty Ty, one of the founders of Desi Trill alongside Shabz. He gets so excited when somebody says no to him. He’s like, “Ah, they said no, like, that means they don’t get it. That means we’re doing something right.” And I was like, WHOA! I love it because music is also just a taste of opinion, right?
It is like… just because one person doesn’t like something you’re doing, or one person turns down an opportunity for you doesn’t mean the next person is. So, I think it again comes back to the belief in yourself where you’re like, “Okay, you said no thanks, but I’m gonna move on to the next thing.” And I think that’s a way to kind of just keep your head stable and not get down with the nos and, you know, a lot of highs and lows. I think that’s a good way to just have perspective and keep going.
Before we talk about your music as an artist, we gotta talk about your massive career as a songwriter. You have written for J Balvin and worked with Armaan Malik and record producer Skrillex. Last year, you wrote King’s remix of “Maan Meri Jaan” with Nick Jonas. Your words have been sung and felt by people across the globe. How do you find the inspiration to write so many diverse tracks for other artists and now, yourself?
I think it’s because I have so many emotions at all times. I think I just never run outta things to write about. If I go into the room, I just put myself in that position… Like, you know, obviously we have the original “Maan Meri Jaan” and we know what King is feeling about that track. So, for me it’s about how do we make this into a new version and add a new thought to it. I remember the first thing we thought of was like, “Oh, I’m gonna love you even in the afterlife.” Like that’s how long it’s gonna be. That’s how long forever is and then you just, somehow when you felt that in your life, you put that into the song as well.
I feel like there are small pieces of me in every song that I’ve composed and written, but it’s still the artist’s meaning, and it’s still the artist’s concept of what they’re trying to say in their life. I think it’s also just so inspiring to be around other collaborators and musicians. I mean for even someone like King… I always tell this story of the first time I met him in person, we were working on a song for him and as he walked inside, we didn’t say hello ’cause he just heard the beat and what we were singing, “Oh, by the way, how are you?”
So yeah, that’s the sort of energy and passion in each room, you know? And when you’re surrounded by that, you’re never low on ideas or low on energy. So yeah and honestly, my first love is songwriting. I mean, take away the singing, take away the instruments… just the mere idea of creating something that didn’t exist in the world like an hour ago… it still blows my mind every day.
Did you ever hit a songwriter’s block while writing a track for an artist or yourself?
I actually don’t believe in Writer’s Block. I mean, I think you can write terrible songs… you can just maybe not be inspired for the day or you’re not in it but you can still write something. It might just not be amazing but you look at it the next day and you’re like, ”Okay, I got that out of my system.” Now I’m gonna write something good.
So yeah, I wouldn’t say I generally go through writer’s block ‘cause I can always write something terrible too! But since you asked, there’s a funny story of when I worked on “Dolls” by Bella Poarch during the pandemic. We were writing it with people in Germany, and the wifi was so bad when I tell you! Like, you could not hear the other person except just stutters. That’s all you could hear and we were trying to sing and we would have a Google Doc open but we couldn’t understand each other well. So, after the session, I was like, “Okay, I don’t know what we just made, because we were on such different pages. We couldn’t hear each other.”
However, when we got the final song, it was so good. (laughs). So yeah, at times, things seem to just magically come together, you know?
You’ve been writing for a minute now. With such massive partnerships and collaborations, you’re a strong stakeholder in the music business too. You must’ve noticed systemic issues concerning fair pay and equal treatment for songwriters in the music industry. Even the film industry goes through this but ours is way more unorganized. While the Writer’s Guild of America went on a historic strike last year, songwriters still do not have such avenues to protest and address these concerns.
Have you ever been at the receiving end of this unfair pay and unequal treatment as a songwriter? If yes, then how do you think that artists such as you can address it?
Thank you for asking me this ‘cause this is something I’m like hugely passionate about. It happens all the time, by the way. Like, no matter how much leverage you have, no matter, like… it’s just that I think because the system has been a certain way, it’s so difficult to address it. I mean, just like how you were saying that the film writers went on strike, songwriters can’t do that ’cause they can’t unionize. So, even if we wanted to, we can’t. Further, even if you kind of put your foot down and you’re like, “Hey, I’m not gonna do this unless you gimme this X, Y, and Z thing,”… there’s always gonna be a newer songwriter that’s dying for that opportunity and might even do it for free.
So yeah, to answer your question, I’ve been there a hundred per cent and understand it. You know, it’s a constant fight for fees. It’s a constant fight for masterpoints for a songwriter. That’s something that’s like super important to me. Like, how does a songwriter make money? And it’s… you know, unless you have a number-one radio hit in America, that’s where your publishing is coming in because the laws are so old that when there’s no streaming, you’re basically making pennies.
However, I think that the mindset is slowly changing.
I’m a huge advocate of getting masterpoints and I’ve often seen people fightin’ back and they’ll be like, “Well, that’s the sound recording and your voice is not on the actual sound recording.” and I’m like, “Okay, but you wouldn’t have song recording without the actual song.” And also, a songwriter is not just a writer, you know? You are in the session, I’m writing a track, I’m writing a melody and then we’re also vocal producing the artist in the room oftentimes. You’re going back into the studio five or six times and it’s hard work. But yeah, I think the mindset is slowly changing. I feel like it’s become less of a fight but it’s still a fight with everybody. I believe that whoever’s a part of the song should have equity in the song because if you win, you win together and how beautiful is that?
It genuinely makes me happy to see the difference in the past, I would say two years of people being more open, independent artists being more open, and labels changing their ways. And I think it’s an uphill battle, but I think if everyone is talking about it and everyone comes together, that’s gonna make the next generation of songwriters be able to make a living. Because what happens to the new songwriters that are coming in? How do you expect them to pay their rent and be able to live off what they’re doing without a day job? Yeah, so hopefully, one song at a time.
Also, songwriters in the Indian music industry themselves are not aware of their rights in some cases. There’s an alarming need to educate the musicians about their rights too or perhaps, advocacy from the vocalists and artists would help the cause too. Would you agree?
Exactly and it’s just that an artist having your back is like, so important.
I always tell the story of how Armaan Malik, someone that I have been working with for a long time, advocated for me after he got signed to Arista Records. The label was putting him with the biggest songwriters in the world, and he immediately advocated and was like, “Well, I’m working with Natania so I want her in the room as well,” and I didn’t have any cuts at that point. I didn’t have any big tracks as a songwriter and having him do that for me was just like… they put me in the room because of that, because the artist was like, no, these are the people I want.
And you know, at the end of the day, everyone is the artist team. They’re all working with you and for you. So if, if you kind of speak up and you’re like, “Hey, this is what’s going on,” everyone on your team wins.
We gotta chat about your single “Nautanki” with Desi Trill! It’s a timeless record which brings together South Asian culture and global pop music at scale. What was it like working on this song?
So, I started writing “Nautanki” at three in the morning on my guitar. If you hear the second verse where it says, like, “When I see forest green, I can’t help but think of you.” It happened on that day… I saw Forest Green somewhere, and it reminded me of someone, and I was like, “Oh, that’s a poor thing.”
Because I have this concept of when I think the relationship in your life is significant to you and even after it’s over, all these reminders get left with you, right? You may hear a song that a person showed you, or you may go somewhere. Even if your mind is like, “okay, forget that,” but your heart still holds on to things like that.
So, I went into the studio the next day and I decided that I wanna write a song about celebrating my broken heart because no one does that… and it’s like when you have a broken heart, it’s actually a great thing. It means that “Hey, I showed up, I opened up, I was vulnerable enough to get my heart broken.” and like, my heart loved. So, isn’t that a celebration in itself? You know? So, we were like, okay, let’s do this! And it just started from there.
So, we just started writing this song and I think it was about 9:00 PM when I called my friends Aman and Zaid who played all Indian instruments and stuff, and I was like, “Guys, I have this really cool idea and I wanna do it now! I’m so inspired!”
They were both in sessions. So, I forced them to come to the studio! So yeah, they came over and we just finished the whole track by 4:00 A.M. It felt so right to capture the feeling of being like, “Oh, I’m proud of my heart.” I opened up and was able to feel that much.
Absolutely and it shows! I further wanted to speak with you about transitioning into major labels after releasing music independently for a long time. Now, you’re signed to Desi Trill and have already accomplished major feats with Roc Nation Publishing. It’s still a whole other ballgame compared to releasing music on your own. How has that worked out for you?
I think for me, it was just such a joy to have a great team. For 10 years, I didn’t have management. I didn’t have anyone. I was just doing everything myself.
I was like cold emailing, I was setting up my sessions and everything else but I think that it was nice to have a team to delegate things to and have people who genuinely believe in what you’re doing and are passionate, you know? So yeah, it’s just been so amazing to have the right people to build around you and who have the same vision and even a better one sometimes.
I think the really cool thing with Shabz and Ty Ty is that, something which I always tell ’em too, they give me so much freedom with my creativity. It’s never like, “Well, you should do a song like this, or you should change this”. And, you know, I send them something and they’re my hype men. They’re like, “Oh my God, I love this. Let’s do this!” You know? And they have certain notes that I think just overall make the song better which I love and admire. They’re just so passionate about what they’re doing and what their vision is that it makes you kind of double passionate and super excited to send them stuff.
I think having a full team around you, whether it’s management, whether it’s label, whether it’s publishing, it’s just amplifying what you’re trying to do and I think having the right team is so important because it really does take a village if you’re trying to make it on a big scale, it really does. And just having passionate people and having people that believe in you is so important. So yeah, it’s been life-changing.
We also gotta chat about “Mumbai Magic”. What was it like working with Shalmali Kholgade? She’s a veteran of Indian playback singing and her tracks are played all around the world and in India at so many festivals! It must’ve been truly inspiring.
Oh, I love her. She is amazing! She had actually come to L.A. about two months before that song came out. At the time, I had written with her for her album as a songwriter and when we wrote for “Mumbai Magic”, I really envisioned it as three girls and I just immediately was like, “Oh, I think having Shalmali on this would be so great!”. So, I sent it though, and I was like, “If you like it, I’d love for you to like give it a try.” And she was like, “Oh my God, I love it.” I remember she literally had two back to back shows and she came straight from the airport to the studio, recorded her vocals and then I think she had another show after that.
So yeah, and she just put her heart and soul into it. Even when we shot the video together, on the chaotic streets of Bombay, it was just so much fun. I look back on that and I see three women just empowering each other. That was just an incredible feeling.
Shalmali Kholgade has been around in the industry for over a decade now and serves as a role model for many women artists in India. Did you have conversations with her about the gender pay gap, or how to cope with inherent misogyny? It has been always difficult for female musicians across the globe, whether it’s major artists like Taylor Swift or Britney Spears or artists such as you who are on the come-up.
A hundred per cent. Having an artist of Shalmali’s stature is like having a firm support system. There were a lot of times when I would ask her like, “Oh my god. How did you deal with this?” and she’s so effortless and powerful with her approach. To me, she’s like the Indian Beyoncé who has inspired me in a lot of ways. I mean, you can say what you’re gonna say or you can have a condescending voice when I walk into a room, you know? If you can stand on your own, that’s kind of all that matters and you have people like that in your circle to help you through it.
You recently became a member of Women in Music. You can address a lot of problems which women artists face in our business through that community of leaders.
True! Being a part of this initiative has been amazing. I mean, for us to create a support system of women is perhaps the strongest way through which we can uplift each other, you know? Like, 90% of my team is women. I think working with women just brings me so much joy in general. Like I love going into the studio now and being able to see a woman engineer. I saw that recently in Mumbai and I was so excited. I was like, “Oh my God, this is awesome… And just like women producing and, you know, more women songwriters and artists telling their stories because I think a lot of stories from a woman’s point of view are really special.
It’s different, you know? and it just has a different sort of emotion and different sort of like, storytelling aspect. And yeah, for me to just pave the way for our future goals in the music business collectively. Maybe there were just 10 of us when I started, but the next thing you know, that number is gonna be 60 and how awesome is it like coming into a community of women that just get what you’re doing? Also, just being there to have a great support system and build each other up is so important.
What’s next for Natania?
Oh, a lot of music for everyone! There’s a track coming out literally the first week of January. I’m so excited about it. It’s a collaboration which I’m very excited to share soon. <laugh>. There’s just gonna be a lot of collaborations next year. More parts of my story that I really wanna share from this project. And I’m also writing a lot with a lot of artists as well, so I’m really excited to kind of just have a huge creative influx.
It has been so inspiring to speak to you about your music! Any words for your fans who would be reading this?
I just genuinely wanna say thank you if you’ve taken out three minutes of your day to listen to something I’ve made, whether it’s my track, or whether I’ve written it. That’s kind of my goal with everything. It’s just a connection and I think music for me is like such a huge soundtrack to my life.
Whether I’m falling in love, whether I’m going through a heartbreak, whether I’m stuck in Mumbai traffic for like three hours. I mean yeah, no matter what, there’s always a soundtrack in my ears and that’s what I wanna do for someone else. So if there’s someone who’s listening and I’ve made any sort of impact on even a minute of their day, that just means the world to me. So I’m just excited to speak, and put out more music for you and for us!
Stream ‘Nautanki’ and ‘Mumbai Magic’ by Natania via Spotify.
